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Wednesday, February 7, 2024

Nuclear Fusion and the worlds water supply

 

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  • begin quote from:https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/101757/nuclear-fusion-and-the-worlds-water-supply

    Nuclear Fusion and the worlds water supply

    Asked 5 years, 4 months ago
    Modified 1 year, 1 month ago
    Viewed 1k times
    -4

    First off, I'm probably missing an important part of the argument regarding nuclear fusion.

    What I think I know about it;

    Nuclear fusion (using heat instead of gravity) is taking Deuterium and Tritium(sp?) and heating them until they fuse. This causes a release of energy that is used to generate heat for the mundane use of steam power generation.

    My issues; I know that deuterium is a very rare isotope of hydrogen. However class one stars aren't made from deuterium. That means it's possible; however unlikely, that should fusion power become feasible that hydrogen-0 will eventually be fusible.

    Water is made from hydrogen and oxygen. Fusion turns hydrogen into helium. Using helium for fusion is infinitely more difficult than using hydrogen. If we start start harvesting hydrogen from water then more oxygen would be release into atmosphere which would drive world temperatures down, but not as fast as water removal would lead to super heating in the thinner crust of the ocean; see Venus. Losing the oceans are a consequence all their own and I don't feel the need to go into detail of how bad a 1% oceanic loss would be on ecological systems as well as future habitation of the Human home world.

    I haven't seen any argument against nuclear fusion outside of conspiracy theory regarding aliens and some god awful eldritch abominations. Read as, no one seems concerned about this.

    I'm assuming that my thought process on this subject must be flawed since I would assume the end of the world would be higher on the priority list than clean energy. Yes there is a lot of water on Earth, but at one point crude oil was though inexhaustible. Better refinement processes and higher demand proved that statement wrong.

    Why are my thoughts regarding this wrong, or am I right and why isn't anyone concerned.

    P.S. I considered putting this on World Building but it feels more legitimate than it should be.

    • nuclear-chemistry
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    asked Sep 16, 2018 at 0:47
    Kayot's user avatar
    Kayot
    9311 bronze badge
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      The gist is that it is possible to fuse deuterium. However the reactors presently don't generate as much power as they consume to create the fusion reaction. If/when scientists do get a fusion reactor working that creates a net surplus of energy then it will be a remarkable source of clean energy.
      – MaxW
      Sep 16, 2018 at 2:09
    • Solar and wind energy with a peak battery storage facility can replace power plants and they are completely renewable. Fusion power isn't renewable as it destroys the hydrogen atom. However this is off question. I'm wanting to know what I'm missing that makes destroying hydrogen+1 (deuterium) and eventually hydrogen a good idea. It seems like a bad plan in the long run. Maybe this is the wrong stack for this question?
      – Kayot
      Sep 16, 2018 at 3:33
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      @Kayot Yes, this is definitely a physics question. The answer is that we could power the world from deuterium and tritium (which is made from lithium, actually) for thousands of years without making a noticeable dent in the supplies available on earth (5𝑥1013
    tons of deuterium in the worlds oceans 2𝑥1011 tons of Li).
    – Karl
    Sep 16, 2018 at 12:18

    • 1
      Nothing "wrong" with using solar and wind. There is a humongous amount of water on the planet. Using a tiny fraction of it would not be a problem for a long time. Whether we have enough water to provide power till the sun novas and destroys the planet in 5 billion years is another matter.
      – MaxW
      Sep 16, 2018 at 15:27
    • So it's not that this isn't an issue, more that it's like, "It won't be a problem in my life time so why care?" scenario?
      – Kayot
      Sep 16, 2018 at 16:00
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    The energy released by a the fusion reaction is exorbitantly higher than that of chemical reactions, according to

    https://www.iter.org/sci/FusionFuels

    four million times more energetic (per mass) than burning conventional chemical fuel. If the plan would be to get the deuterium by elektrolysis from ocean water the normal hydrogen would not be used. Arguments against nuclear fusion that I have heard of are:

    -can create radioactive products (if I remember correctely it has something to do with the generated neutrons)

    -big initial starting energy requiered (how do you get them back running in case of an blackout)

    -expensive costruction which needs to be able to withstand high temperatures

    and this list is by no means conclusive...

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    answered Sep 16, 2018 at 2:41
    Beny Benz's user avatar
    Beny Benz
    1133 bronze badges
    • You forgot the one about a massive nuclear explosion because of reasons. I had a thirty minute discussion with a friend explaining that it would only slag the reactor.
      – Kayot
      Sep 16, 2018 at 3:27
    • @Kayot A fusion reactor just cannot explode. Fission reactors explode if they are built and run by idiots who refuse to understand that a molten reactor core produces hydrogen gas from the coolant water.
      – Karl
      Sep 16, 2018 at 12:11

  • Or if your reactor gets hit by a tsunami and all of your emergency systems fail. Whereas the fusion reactor's plasma would expand if the magnets holding it in place would fail and cooles which stops the fusion. There are other types of fission reactors with heavy water as moderator (to slow down the neutrons) which are said to be saver because the fission stops if the heavy water would be replaced with water or removed...
    – Beny Benz
    Sep 16, 2018 at 13:48

    • That's what I said. I had to explain that in a worse case scenario it would slag the reactor. That means it would simply melt the inside and then cool off.
      – Kayot
      Sep 16, 2018 at 15:58
    • @BenyBenz Which happens if you first deny the danger of tsunamis at the japanese coast, and then when the inevitable has happened don't fly in emergency pumps and power generators. And still then the reactors wouldn't have exploded if they had had the catalytic converters for hydrogen which were installed in e.g. german reactors (enforced by law) thirty years ago. (Heavy water reactor cores also melt if they are inadequately cooled.)
      – Karl
      Sep 18, 2018 at 4:37
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    intuitivefred888 at 2:22 PM
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    intuitivefred888
    I live in Coastal Northern California at present but was raised mostly in Los Angeles and San Diego Counties. I have also lived in Seattle, Santa Fe, New Mexico, Maui and the big Island of Hawaii. My archive site is: dragonofcompassion.com
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