| Bloomberg | - |
U.S.
lawmakers angry about domestic telephone record-collection lost an
effort to curtail funding for the intelligence-gathering tools revealed
by fugitive U.S.
House Rejects Bid to Curb Spy-Agency Access to Phone Data
By Timothy R. Homan & Chris Strohm -
Jul 24, 2013 9:00 PM PT
U.S. lawmakers angry about domestic
telephone record-collection lost an effort to curtail funding
for the intelligence-gathering tools revealed by fugitive U.S.
security contractor Edward Snowden.
On a 205-217 vote, the House yesterday rejected an amendment by Representative Justin Amash, a Michigan Republican, that would have limited the National Security Agency’s ability to collect phone records.
The amendment’s implementation could have created a new burden on telephone companies to retain bulk data, in addition to ending the NSA’s blanket collection of phone records. Those possibilities led the White House, Republican leaders and many congressional Democrats to oppose the proposal, pitting them against lawmakers from both parties who champion civil liberties and privacy.
After the vote, Amash said he plans to pursue efforts to curb the NSA’s authority to collect phone records. He said the White House intervened strongly to urge Democrats to keep the program intact.
“How embarrassing for a president who claims to be a defender of civil liberties to be pushing for the collection of the phone records of every American in the U.S,” he said in an interview.
Amash, first elected to the House in 2010, said he will now seek to rein in the surveillance program through the Judiciary Committee. Along with Representative John Conyers, a Michigan Democrat who is the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Amash’s allies in the effort include Republican Representative Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, the panel’s former chairman.
NSA and White House lobbying was key to the amendment’s failure, Amash and Conyers said in separate interviews.
The close vote on Amash’s amendment ensures that the debate will continue, Conyers said.
The proposed change to the Defense appropriations bill would have prohibited intelligence agencies from collecting phone records unless a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order stipulates that the records pertain to an individual under investigation.
Along with putting an end to the NSA’s blanket collection of metadata on calls, such as telephone numbers and duration, the provision would have caused potential headaches for information technology companies.
The House adopted an amendment by Republican Representative Richard Nugent of Florida that sought to prohibit the NSA from using funds in the almost $600 billion Pentagon spending measure to “acquire, monitor or store the content” of electronic communications by “a United States person.”
The Nugent amendment was viewed by some lawmakers as providing political cover for those who didn’t want to vote for Amash’s proposal.
Representative Lee Terry, a Nebraska Republican, said in an interview that the Nugent amendment offered lawmakers a chance to tell the NSA they’re “uncomfortable with what we’re doing,” without killing the program entirely.
Representative Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat who supported Amash’s measure, said the Nugent amendment simply restates current law and is “a fig leaf” that wouldn’t change the program’s operation.
Privacy advocates such as Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington, supported both amendments.
The Amash amendment would have made the government use its authority as originally intended by the Patriot Act, under which records only can be sought for particular investigations, Martin said in a phone interview.
“The fact that the House leadership allowed debate and vote on this amendment reflects the deep concern in the Congress about both the secrecy and the breadth of these authorities,” she said.
“It’s a funny issue because it’s not partisan; it’s just that eternal debate between liberty and security,” said Representative Tom Cole, an Oklahoma Republican who also voted against Amash’s proposal.
While Alexander’s remarks in his briefing weren’t made public, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper yesterday issued a statement in opposition to the Amash amendment.
“I join others who caution that acting in haste to defund the FISA Business Records program risks dismantling an important intelligence tool,” Clapper said.
White House press secretary Jay Carney issued a written statement on July 23 saying the administration opposed “the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our intelligence community’s counterterrorism tools.”
“This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process,” Carney said.
“Any such changes ought to proceed through a regular legislative process so the effects can be understood and debated fully,” the chairmen said in a statement.
Rogers said he’d revisit the issue later this year in a larger intelligence bill.
After the defeat of the Amash amendment, the House passed the overall Defense Department spending bill, H.R. 2397, by a vote of 315-109.
Snowden, a former security contractor for Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp. (BAH), faces U.S. espionage charges for disclosing secret phone and Internet surveillance programs. He fled to Hong Kong and then Moscow.
To contact the reporters on this story: Timothy R. Homan in Washington at thoman1@bloomberg.net; Chris Strohm in Washington at cstrohm1@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Katherine Rizzo at krizzo5@bloomberg.net
end quote from:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-25/house-rejects-bid-to-curb-spy-agency-access-to-phone-data.html
If we didn't get rid of all this when Nixon left the White House we never will. Also, imagine the Spy Agencies Worldwide who need funding to do Black Ops. Now imagine how many billions or even trillions some people or governments or agencies or businesses would pay for that information literally about everyone on earth? Maybe selling each person's
to 100 different individuals and groups sort of like it was the latest Windows Version or something. Why would secret agencies worldwide (not just the U.S.) want to give up all that Black Ops money?
That way secret agencies don't have to sell opium or heroin grown in Afghanistan to raise money like they have been doing since the Viet Nam War? This is nothing new. It just hasn't gone away. All of us saw it then since the 1960s and 1970s it's just here still. Why would it go away? People aren't angry enough. They would have to be 1000 times or more angry to even make a dent in this and even then next week or next year it would still be happening if not by governments, private entrepreneurs would step in if they didn't do it. This kind of thing cannot be enforced. So people can't stop this. The only way to stop it would be to have an EMP worldwide from a Solar Flare that wiped out all electronic technology. The likelihood of this is about 1 and 1000 to 1 in 1,000,000. Let's be realistic about Secret agencies and private people selling this information to the highest bidder worldwide. It's awful but it happens and there really is no way to stop it as long as the technology exists.
The same is true of drones. They are going to be everywhere with or without laws just like guns. It's sad but it's also the world we all live in now. So, for now at least we better get used to it.
Also, likely this information is about everyone on earth. Because even people without cellphones trying to hide out beyond the grid are seen by satellites that could see the date on a dime in the 1970s. What can they see now?
So, get ready for all the dossiers and drones and more guns than we have now. You might think I'm being cynical. However, I'm just being pragmatically realistic. I don't see how to stop it so maybe we need to learn to live with it. There isn't a way to make it stop permanently. Thinking there is is unrealistic.
But, maybe if people are really determined in all countries worldwide it can be at least reduced at least as it relates to governments worldwide doing this. But, even then that doesn't affect criminals and corporations and businesses and individuals making a profit doing this full time worldwide.
On a 205-217 vote, the House yesterday rejected an amendment by Representative Justin Amash, a Michigan Republican, that would have limited the National Security Agency’s ability to collect phone records.
The amendment’s implementation could have created a new burden on telephone companies to retain bulk data, in addition to ending the NSA’s blanket collection of phone records. Those possibilities led the White House, Republican leaders and many congressional Democrats to oppose the proposal, pitting them against lawmakers from both parties who champion civil liberties and privacy.
After the vote, Amash said he plans to pursue efforts to curb the NSA’s authority to collect phone records. He said the White House intervened strongly to urge Democrats to keep the program intact.
“How embarrassing for a president who claims to be a defender of civil liberties to be pushing for the collection of the phone records of every American in the U.S,” he said in an interview.
Amash, first elected to the House in 2010, said he will now seek to rein in the surveillance program through the Judiciary Committee. Along with Representative John Conyers, a Michigan Democrat who is the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Amash’s allies in the effort include Republican Representative Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, the panel’s former chairman.
Alexander’s Briefing
The head of the NSA, General Keith Alexander, gave lawmakers a hastily scheduled briefing on July 23 to make the case for leaving the program as it is.NSA and White House lobbying was key to the amendment’s failure, Amash and Conyers said in separate interviews.
The close vote on Amash’s amendment ensures that the debate will continue, Conyers said.
The proposed change to the Defense appropriations bill would have prohibited intelligence agencies from collecting phone records unless a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order stipulates that the records pertain to an individual under investigation.
Along with putting an end to the NSA’s blanket collection of metadata on calls, such as telephone numbers and duration, the provision would have caused potential headaches for information technology companies.
‘Significant Burden’
“It could be a significant burden depending on how the government wants us to keep this data and store it,” Trey Hodgkins, a senior vice president for TechAmerica, a Washington-based trade group that represents Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ), AT&T Inc. (T) and CenturyLink Inc. (CTL), said in a phone interview. “You’re talking about potentially extremely huge data sets.”The House adopted an amendment by Republican Representative Richard Nugent of Florida that sought to prohibit the NSA from using funds in the almost $600 billion Pentagon spending measure to “acquire, monitor or store the content” of electronic communications by “a United States person.”
The Nugent amendment was viewed by some lawmakers as providing political cover for those who didn’t want to vote for Amash’s proposal.
Representative Lee Terry, a Nebraska Republican, said in an interview that the Nugent amendment offered lawmakers a chance to tell the NSA they’re “uncomfortable with what we’re doing,” without killing the program entirely.
‘Bridge Too Far’
“What we’re basically saying with this amendment is we don’t trust you so we’re being very, very clear where the lines are,” he said, adding that the Amash amendment was “a bridge too far.”Representative Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat who supported Amash’s measure, said the Nugent amendment simply restates current law and is “a fig leaf” that wouldn’t change the program’s operation.
Privacy advocates such as Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington, supported both amendments.
The Amash amendment would have made the government use its authority as originally intended by the Patriot Act, under which records only can be sought for particular investigations, Martin said in a phone interview.
“The fact that the House leadership allowed debate and vote on this amendment reflects the deep concern in the Congress about both the secrecy and the breadth of these authorities,” she said.
Atypical Coalitions
The debate in Washington produced unusual alliances, with the White House and Republican House -- typically at odds -- allied against Amash’s proposal. On the other were the libertarian wing of the Republican Party and Democrats concerned about the government’s intrusion on privacy rights. Supporting the amendment were 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats. Voting against it 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats. The House’s two top Republicans, Speaker John Boehner of Ohio and Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia, and the chamber’s top Democrats, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland, all opposed the amendment.“It’s a funny issue because it’s not partisan; it’s just that eternal debate between liberty and security,” said Representative Tom Cole, an Oklahoma Republican who also voted against Amash’s proposal.
NSA Opposition
The NSA has said that while it gathers information on all U.S. phone calls to have it at hand, agency officials access the data only when needed for terrorism investigations. Current law states that the NSA cannot target a U.S. person without an individual warrant.While Alexander’s remarks in his briefing weren’t made public, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper yesterday issued a statement in opposition to the Amash amendment.
“I join others who caution that acting in haste to defund the FISA Business Records program risks dismantling an important intelligence tool,” Clapper said.
White House press secretary Jay Carney issued a written statement on July 23 saying the administration opposed “the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our intelligence community’s counterterrorism tools.”
“This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process,” Carney said.
‘Regular’ Process
The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Representative Mike Rogers of Michigan, and the head of the Armed Services Committee, Republican Representative Buck McKeon of California, said before the vote that though concerns about the spy programs are worthy of debate, the matter shouldn’t be handled as part of the Pentagon spending bill.“Any such changes ought to proceed through a regular legislative process so the effects can be understood and debated fully,” the chairmen said in a statement.
Rogers said he’d revisit the issue later this year in a larger intelligence bill.
After the defeat of the Amash amendment, the House passed the overall Defense Department spending bill, H.R. 2397, by a vote of 315-109.
Snowden, a former security contractor for Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp. (BAH), faces U.S. espionage charges for disclosing secret phone and Internet surveillance programs. He fled to Hong Kong and then Moscow.
To contact the reporters on this story: Timothy R. Homan in Washington at thoman1@bloomberg.net; Chris Strohm in Washington at cstrohm1@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Katherine Rizzo at krizzo5@bloomberg.net
end quote from:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-25/house-rejects-bid-to-curb-spy-agency-access-to-phone-data.html
If we didn't get rid of all this when Nixon left the White House we never will. Also, imagine the Spy Agencies Worldwide who need funding to do Black Ops. Now imagine how many billions or even trillions some people or governments or agencies or businesses would pay for that information literally about everyone on earth? Maybe selling each person's
Dossier - Merriam-Webster Online
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dossier
dossier · dossy. dos·sier. noun \ˈdȯs-ˌyā, ˈdäs-; ˈdȯ-sē-ˌā, ˈdä-\. Definition of DOSSIER. : a file containing detailed records on a particular person or subject.That way secret agencies don't have to sell opium or heroin grown in Afghanistan to raise money like they have been doing since the Viet Nam War? This is nothing new. It just hasn't gone away. All of us saw it then since the 1960s and 1970s it's just here still. Why would it go away? People aren't angry enough. They would have to be 1000 times or more angry to even make a dent in this and even then next week or next year it would still be happening if not by governments, private entrepreneurs would step in if they didn't do it. This kind of thing cannot be enforced. So people can't stop this. The only way to stop it would be to have an EMP worldwide from a Solar Flare that wiped out all electronic technology. The likelihood of this is about 1 and 1000 to 1 in 1,000,000. Let's be realistic about Secret agencies and private people selling this information to the highest bidder worldwide. It's awful but it happens and there really is no way to stop it as long as the technology exists.
The same is true of drones. They are going to be everywhere with or without laws just like guns. It's sad but it's also the world we all live in now. So, for now at least we better get used to it.
Also, likely this information is about everyone on earth. Because even people without cellphones trying to hide out beyond the grid are seen by satellites that could see the date on a dime in the 1970s. What can they see now?
So, get ready for all the dossiers and drones and more guns than we have now. You might think I'm being cynical. However, I'm just being pragmatically realistic. I don't see how to stop it so maybe we need to learn to live with it. There isn't a way to make it stop permanently. Thinking there is is unrealistic.
But, maybe if people are really determined in all countries worldwide it can be at least reduced at least as it relates to governments worldwide doing this. But, even then that doesn't affect criminals and corporations and businesses and individuals making a profit doing this full time worldwide.
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