Turkey's disillusionment with the U.S. can only be 1 1/100 of the U.S. disillusionment with Erdogan destroying the Turkish Democracy, putting hundreds of thousands of people in jail or killing them and becoming the next Saddam Hussein in the Middle East. My hope is that Trump doesn't do exactly the same thing to America that Erdogan did this year to Turkey. This government Trump is setting up is so incompetent almost anything dangerous could happen from within or without.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey speaks with
60 Minutes' Steve Kroft about tensions and anti-Americanism in his
country, a NATO ally vital to projecting U.S. military power
The
following script is from “Turkey,” which aired on Nov. 20, 2016. Steve
Kroft is the correspondent. Michael H. Gavshon, Howard L. Rosenberg and
David M. Levine, producers.
When Donald Trump is sworn in as
the 45th president of the United States, he’ll be forced to deal with a
lot of complicated international issues, especially Turkey. It is an
indispensable but angry NATO ally right now, led by an assertive,
strong-minded president who you will hear from shortly, Recep Tayyip
Erdoğan. He’s been making noises lately about perhaps going his own way
in the Middle East, and is being courted by Russia. If it sounds
Byzantine, it should be noted that the word was coined to describe the
complicated history and politics of this land. With war raging on two of
its borders and inundated with refugees, Turkey is right in the middle
of things, as it has been for the past 2,000 years.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
CBS News
Its
largest city sits astride the Bosporus Strait, a body of water that
separates Asia from Europe, East from West, and the Islamic world from
Christendom. It was known as Byzantium at the time of Christ, and
Constantinople in the Middle Ages, before the Ottoman hordes overran the
city, converted the cathedrals into grand mosques, and ruled an empire
that lasted 600 years. Today, Istanbul and the Republic of Turkey still
have a foot in both cultures, a Muslim population, a Western-style
democracy and NATO’s second largest army, in the most dangerous
neighborhood in the world.
Steve Kroft: Describe the relationship with Turkey right now?
James Jeffrey: Extremely important, extremely complicated, at the top of the next president’s agenda.
Steve Kroft: Because?
James Jeffrey: First of all, it’s location. Location is everything.
Bosporus Strait
CBS News
Former
U.S. Ambassador James Jeffrey spent much of his diplomatic career in
Turkey, a country that shares borders with Syria, Iraq, Iran and the
Black Sea to the north with Russia. But more importantly, Turkey also
plays host to the United States and other NATO countries at a number of
critical air bases like Incirlik… that serve as staging areas for
military operations in the Middle East, and are vital to projecting U.S.
military power all the way from Europe to India.
Steve Kroft: And how important are those bases?
James
Jeffrey: They’re extremely important. We could not be doing the
campaign against ISIS right now in Northern Iraq and in Syria without
these bases.
Steve Kroft: So the U.S. can’t afford to lose those bases?
James Jeffrey: Absolutely not.
This is the man who allows the U.S. access to those bases,
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the conservative, nationalistic -- some
would say autocratic -- leader who has governed the democracy for the
past 13 years. We met him last month, at the brand new 1,100-room palace
in Ankara, which is emblematic of Erdoğan’s admiration for the grandeur
of Turkey’s Ottoman past, and his ambition to make it once again the
most powerful country in the region.
But Erdoğan is upset with
the U.S. policies in Syria that, he says, have led to a clear and
present security threat on his southern border, interfered with his
ability to defend his country, and inundated Turkey with nearly 3
million refugees. Twice the number that has flooded into Europe.
“Well,
let me be very frank in my remarks and I’ve been known for my candor. I
wouldn’t speak the truth if I said I was not disillusioned. Because I
am disillusioned.” President Erdogan
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: We
have addressed these issues, discussed them with President Obama and
Vice President Biden. They failed to rise to the occasion and handle
these issues seriously. This is quite upsetting for us.
Steve Kroft: You seem very frustrated with the United States.
Recep
Tayyip Erdoğan: Well, let me be very frank in my remarks and I’ve been
known for my candor. I wouldn’t speak the truth if I said I was not
disillusioned. Because I am disillusioned.
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
CBS News
President
Erdoğan is not the only one in Turkey disillusioned with America right
now. So are many of his countrymen, who feel that their Western allies
care more about their own interests than Turkey’s.
Most of the
tension and anti-Americanism can be traced back to the night of July
15th here in the heart of Istanbul. Factions of the Turkish military
shut down the Bosporus Bridge that connects Europe and Asia and launched
a coup to overthrow the elected government.
It wasn’t long after
that F-16s commandeered by a rogue faction of the Air Force streaked
fast and low across the skies of Istanbul and Ankara…sonic booms
shattered windows. The plotters used tanks and troops, to seize
strategic buildings and military bases, and shut down Istanbul’s main
airport. And in something never seen before in the capital of NATO
country, the parliament in Ankara was bombed, and helicopter gunships
strafed the presidential palace. Soldiers stormed television stations
and announced that Turkey was under martial law.
President
Erdoğan, was on vacation with his family when he learned a coup was
underway. He wanted to address the country, but had no access to the
media. So he used the FaceTime app on a borrowed phone to call into a
Turkish television station. He pleaded for people to take to the streets
and fill the squares.
Tens of thousands responded. Facing down
tanks and helicopters. As volleys were fired into crowds, Erdoğan
boarded a plane and flew towards Istanbul.
Steve Kroft: were you afraid for your life and the lives of your family members?
Recep
Tayyip Erdoğan: Steve, in our faith there is a concept. We surrender
ourselves to death. If you’re the leader you have to communicate the
message of immortality to your people. Because I believe if a leader
hides behind a rock, then the people will hide behind a mountain.
His return to Istanbul proved to be the turning point by daybreak the coup attempt had failed. More than 200 were dead.
Erdoğan immediately blamed the revolt on his arch-enemy, an
elderly and exiled cleric name Fethullah Gulen, whose followers had
infiltrated the highest levels of the Turkish military, judiciary, and
civil service. For the past 17 years, Gulen has been leading a reclusive
life in the United States on a 26-acre retreat in the Pocono Mountains.
For months, Erdoğan has demanded that his American ally return Gulen to
Turkey.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: This man is the leader of a
terrorist organization that has bombed my parliament. We have extradited
terrorists to the United States in the past. And we expect the same
thing to be done by the United States.
The U.S. is insisting that
the extradition process must be handled through U.S. courts to evaluate
the evidence. The delay has created widespread suspicions here that the
U.S. government is protecting Gulen and that its intelligence agencies
may have been involved or had advance knowledge of the coup. Members of
Erdoğan’s government have suggested that publicly. The U.S. has denied
it.
Steve Kroft: Do you believe that there was any U.S. involvement?
Recep
Tayyip Erdoğan: I’m not going to blame the United States. But that’s
what my people will think. Why are you still keeping that man? So as
long you harbor him there, I’m sorry, don’t get offended. But this is
the-- perception of the Turkish nation and the Turkish people.
Steve Kroft: I’m taking it from your answer that you have done nothing to discourage the Turkish people from believing that.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: I cannot deceive my people. I cannot
deceive my people here. Because I’m suffering right now. The United
States is not suffering. But I’m suffering because of the 241 martyrs
that we have buried.
Erdoğan had begun a crackdown on the Gulenist
movement and other perceived enemies before the attempted coup. After
it, he used a state of emergency to begin a massive effort to purge them
from government and Turkish society. More than 30,000 people have been
arrested or detained including generals, judges, prosecutors, mayors,
members of Parliament, teachers and journalists. Another 100,000 people
have been fired or suspended from government jobs. And 150 media outlets
have been shut down.
Steve Kroft: Some critics in Turkey and some
people in the United States have said that this is an overreaction.
This is a crackdown on the political opposition, not a crackdown on
terrorists?
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: In Turkey, they attempted to
destroy my state. And of course, we could not remain silent. We could
not remain indifferent. And these measures are being taken by
prosecutors and judges in full accordance with the rule of law.
There
are not many people in Turkey today eager to publicly criticize the
government. Soli Özel is an academic and a prominent political
commentator.
Soli Özel: I think this has gone beyond only the
Gulenists. A lot of teachers have been dismissed who probably have
nothing to do with the Gulenists. A lot of newspaper people have been
dismissed although they have nothing with the Gulenists. And I think a
lot of people who really had nothing to do with the coup attempt itself
are now being burned.
Steve Kroft: Do you think the government is becoming more and the presidency is becoming more authoritarian?
Soli
Özel: We are moving in that direction, yes. The presidency has now
accumulated a lot more power than is stipulated in the constitution. And
it will continue to accumulate more.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: This
is misperception. It is out of the question. We have saved our country
from the hands of a heinous coup. And we are very much determined to
protect our democracy.
There is a strong bent of authoritarianism
that runs through Turkish history and Turkish life and Erdoğan’s message
and actions have played well with the public. After the failed coup,
his approval rating jumped to 68 percent. Much of that support comes
from more traditional, conservative Muslims, who have long been
marginalized in Turkish society. Erdoğan has embraced them, courted them
and included them in his government.
Ece Temelkuran: He is a brilliant politician when it comes to talking to common people and with their discourse.
Ece
Temelkuran is a Turkish writer who chronicles the country’s cultural
and political changes. She believes this is all part of Erdoğan’s vision
for a new Turkey.
Ece Temelkuran: The new Turkey does not ask you
to be more religious. It asks you to be more obedient. It has to be
obedient. It has to be male, conservative, religious and, you know,
supporting the governing party.
Erdoğan’s new Turkey has been a
source of concern in Washington. While the two NATO allies still share
the same goals of replacing the Assad government in Syria and defeating
ISIS, each country has its own special interests and priorities. And in
some cases its own allies. The United States is obsessed with ISIS.
Turkey is obsessed with Kurdish separatist groups that have been waging a
decades-long war inside their country. This is where it gets
complicated. The U.S. is supporting and arming Kurdish groups that
Turkey considers bitter enemies, and they have responded by bombing the
U-S allies.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: You cannot defend another
terrorist organization just because they are fighting ISIS as well. You
cannot make a distinction between a good terrorist organization and a
bad terrorist organization. But this is something that we did not come
to an agreement with the United States about.
Into all this
acrimony between Erdoğan and the United States has stepped Russian
President Vladimir Putin, one of first world leaders to express
solidarity with Turkey after the failed coup. Since then the two
countries have finalized a major pipeline deal… and agreed to step up
military and intelligence contacts.
Steve Kroft: Are you reevaluating your alliance and relationship with NATO and the United States?
Recep
Tayyip Erdoğan: Right now, such a thing is not in question. We are
moving in the same direction with NATO that we have always done.
According
to one informed observer, what Erdoğan is really looking for is an
answer to this question: Is the U.S. truly committed to use all of its
power, including its military, to preserve order in the region, stop
terrorism and protect the interests of Turkey. Yes, or No?
It’s a
difficult question to answer because the Middle East is such a messy
place. But right now it looks like the answer from Donald Trump may be
yes. His aides have described Turkey as a vital ally and called for the
extradition of Fethullah Gulen and Trump himself has suggested he has
high hopes for a closer relationship.
Few
journalists have achieved the impact and recognition that Steve Kroft's
60 Minutes work has generated for over two decades. Kroft delivered his
first report for 60 Minutes in 1989.
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